Monday, September 11, 2006

“THAT’S JUST YOUR INTERPRETATION”


After a few comments questioning the reliability of the Bible and it's many interpretations, I thought I would share this from The Christian Research Institute.

How many times has this happened to you? You quote the Bible in a conversation only to hear, “That’s just your interpretation?” Is one interpretation of the Bible as good as any other?

When someone says, “That’s just your interpretation,” usually what they are implying is that no one interpretation of the Bible is better than any other. But the Bible is not abstract art, which we can look at any way we want to. Instead, the Bible is a collection of history books, songs, proverbs, letters, sermons and prophecies — what they’re doing is simply playing with it.

Yet having said this, I’m well aware of the fact that people do interpret the bible very differently. You see to “interpret” the Bible properly, you just can’t take a part of it and interpret it in some fanciful manner. Some people, of course, do that, but they’re not really interpreting the Bible — what they’re doing is simply playing with it.

In addition, let me point out that most differences in Biblical interpretation by people who are seriously committed to understanding it, are pretty minor indeed. The big picture — who God is, what God has done in history, what God expects of us now, and what God has in store for us in the future — is pretty clear. The differences that remain are the kinds of differences you would really expect whenever finite, sinful human beings are trying to understand an infinite perfect God.

The next time someone says to you, “That’s just your interpretation,” you might try saying something like this, “Well, then, what’s your interpretation?” Ask them to show you just how their interpretation fits the language and context of the bible better. Often, here’s what you’re going to find, that the person is just making excuses to avoid having a close encounter with the clear teachings of the Word of God.

62 comments:

Josiah said...

Perhaps because my interpretation actually fits in with historical context and Hebrew and Greek translations, Mark? Seriously, I would respect your views SO much more if you brought forth more of a reason then "because I said so."

Mark said...

No it does not Chase aka josiah. Seriously, I would respect you more if you didn't think your ass was a sexual pleasure zone for other objects. Reasons stated in other comment section.

Now about the Bible translations?

PS I have been fair to you in the psat Chase. You are a child, and I will remind you once again, I am not.

Jonathan said...

Mark:

I believe that Josiah has stated on more than one occassion that he is still a virgin. To level this kind of argument at him is juvenile and beneath you as a man who claims to be a Christian. My correspondence with you would indicate that your response here is not typical.

Blessings!

j.

Joe Brummer said...

Mark States to Josiah: No it does not Chase aka josiah. Seriously, I would respect you more if you didn't think your ass was a sexual pleasure zone for other objects. Reasons stated in other comment section

Joe Replies:
I have lost what little respect I tried to have for you with this disrespectful and vile thing to say. It seems you can go lower than I thought.

So much for the greatest commandment!

Mark said...

To both Jonathan and Joe,
It was Chase aka josiah that brought his ass and more specifically his prostate gland(which he believes God placed in his ass for sexual sensitivity for good reason)into the discussion. Please refer to his comments on my post "I am Gay...?" He said he "did not want to go there", but thought it wise to prove his intellectual wisdom. IMHO, that wisdom is a direct result of the bullshit from mostly the likes of people like you Joe and often times defended by you jonathan, although not specific to this circumstance.

Joe, you say I have lost what little respect I tried to have for you with this disrespectful and vile thing to say. It seems you can go lower than I thought

I don't give a rats ass about you respecting me, if that helps you feel better. Hate away Joe! I do care that you understand exactly what you teach and how it affects children and young people just like Chase.

jonathan says My correspondence with you would indicate that your response here is not typical.

You are correct. I would have rather not addressed the subject at all. But when evil is knocking down another life, a young man's life in this instance, I will refute it as best I can. So I did.

Josiah said...

Well, then Mark, if your mission as to refute my ideas with yours, then I am sorry to say you have failed. The only thing youhave accompished in this blog, I am afraid, is make me realize how idiotic some peope really can be. That being sai, I'm leaving this blog, considering people pretend that because of their age they know better than me right before they make comments I'd expect from a seventh grader.

Mark, I would say it was nice meeting you, Debra, Dani, and the like, but it wasn't. To Kevin, Jon, Joe, and others, I offer my condolences that I won't be available to defend my beliefs anymorem but Kevin was right when he said my intellect and abilities were being wasted here. I will still keep in contact with you all via your respective blogs, and will enjoy talking with you all again.

Goodbye.

Mark said...

Chase,
I fail all the time. I will indeed say it was nice meeting you Chase!

I will not worry about you because you are indeed seeking Christ, and God is Good, All the time! Even if I, and many, many others are Not!

May God Bless you and yours.
Later.

Your seventh grade mentality idiot,
Mark ;)

DL Foster said...

Mark,
same ole song from J&J. Seems like the boy wonder has joined their ranks.
When they can't separate you from your beliefs, they lose "respect" for you.
What respect? Every comment is an attempt to degrade what we believe and uphold.
What respect??

Its right nice and fine and upstanding for them to have their abominable beliefs. And spread them all over the internet and God knows where else.

BUT just don't you believe in
Biblical sexuality. That's sufficient cause for them to "lose respect" for you.

One of your squatters even posted on his ghost of a blog that the yellow shirt I wore (an authentic soccer shirt with the national colors of Jamaica which was a gift from my Jamaican friends) signified that I liked to participate in "water sports" with other men. Its further proof what their vile filthy minds think of constantly.
Since he referenced a popular gay website, it stands to reason then that the majority of them hold the same vile and filthy views.

Like I said, proof out of their own mouths.

Mark you did and are doing a great job defending what you believe.

Mark said...

many many thanks brother!

vile and filthy don't begin to express how I am feeling about "their" message.

I am off to watch some football before I reload, ;) for the sake of my wife, the Redskins better lose! lol!

Josiah said...

Oh, and ONE LAST COMMENT, MARK!


I'M A REDSKINS FAN, AND THEY'RE GOING TO KICK SOME DALLAS ASS THIS YEAR!

That is all. >.>

Mark said...

Oh and one last comment....

one of my favorite seasons...
DALLAS was 2-14 that year.
You were just a kid then, but can you remember who the 2 WINS were against?

hint: s k i n s

Take care Chase

Joe Brummer said...

What I love about these commentary things is when DL and Mark decided to speak down and insult us. In the process od what every it is you are trying to achieve (I have yet to figure that out even when I ask directly) you just don't see how we have separated you from your beliefs.

You talk about your beliefs, but your actions and words are no example of your beliefs. If you truly believe in the message of christ, don't just spread his words, quotes scriptures....be living examples of it both here on ther web and in the real world.

As I read your blogs and your comments to others, you in no way make me want to believe in christ. If this is your example of what Christ can do, I want no part.

Mark said...

Joe,
Reality check, and your a smart man and know better.

No one brings You to Christ but You Joe!

us is a generalization you should stop using. We all are the affection of God's eye!

you say "You" in no way make me want to believe in christ.

Take the "You" out of your thinking / equation, and replace it with Christ! ie truth.

unless.....you already know all that and are playing a game? In that event I would remind you, those of us that are considered "losers" to the world's standards, are "winners" in God's eternal life.

Otherwise, please explain to me why Christ had to suffer when He was Blameless?

If Christ is not who the Bible says He is, then stop using Him to make a point! k?

Joe Brummer said...

Hey Mark,
Whatevery helps you sleep at night!

Christ was the son of god, he asked us to act a certain way with certain actions, actions you are not taking or living.

My point is this: You are no example of christ or being a christian. Your actions are not that of what Christ asked of us. Your attacks, and support of DL's attacks on others make it clear to me you talk the talk, but you are unable to walk the walk.

If you want to bring people to christ....then be the change you wish to see in the world (MG)

Aplogize for you horrid remarks, and make the choice to live Christ's message and not just talk about it.

Cleanie said...

Hey Joe Brummer,
Jesus says Homosexuality is great, and pornography doesnt hurt anyone. There, IM tolerant, do you think Im a loving christian now?
This would be all fine and dandy if it was what Jesus actually felt, but it isnt.
You hide behind the guise of tolerance to change what Jesus actually taught. Jess did teach love thy neighbor but that doesnt mean we change what a sin is to acommodate you.

DL Foster said...

Brummer has no clue about who Jesus is. If he did he would

(a) not blame someone else for not knowing or accepting him. No one can stop you from accepting Jesus as savior AND LORD, if that's what you want. So put the lame excuses in your back pocket.

(b)get out of the homosexual sin business...TODAY. "Acting like a Christian" is not the goal of Jesus. Its holiness lived out in obedience. Sexual immorality is a moral killer.

(c) stop degrading Jesus by putting Ghandi on the same level. That's called idolatry.

Finally Jesus said those who chose not to believe in him are DAMNED already. (John 3:17) Thats right after John 3:16. Ghandi can't change that.

Jonathan said...

DL -

Thanks for your posts re 9/11 on your blog. Very well written! It was a day that is burned into our collective memories. I had a hard time reading about different people's memories and reliving my own from that day without breaking down. I lost two business associates that day which brought it all that closer to home. We will never forget!

On another note, I'm a little curious where you came up with your interpretation of John 3:17. It's a new one for me. My New American Standard (which many scholars say hues most closely to the original) says: "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him." We seem to understand this scripture differently.

Mark:

Great comment to Josiah! ("you are indeed seeking Christ, and God is Good, All the time! Even if I, and many, many others are Not!")

Blessings!

j.

Mark said...

16"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

17"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.

18"He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19"This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil.

20"For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.


DL was perhaps refering verses 17 & 18 jonathan. Then there should be no confusion for you I hope. DL would be correct...Jesus said those who chose not to believe in him are DAMNED already.(v18) Ghandi can't change that.

Joe Brummer said...

Thank you DL, Your remarks only stregthen my feelings about fundemenalist Christians being more about saying the words than living the words.

Nothing you said really disagrees with me.

I said, Jesus is the son of god.
I have never said Gandhi is on the same level, but I have said they have similar messages, they should since Gandhi took parts of his message from Christ and admits to that.

Either way, your actions make my point stronger.

highboy said...

"My point is this: You are no example of christ or being a christian. Your actions are not that of what Christ asked of us."

Nice job. I guess when Jesus called names you said the same thing of Him right? Or is "brood of vipers" a term of endearment?

Joe Brummer said...

Jesus told us specifically how to treat those who oppose us. It is very clear in the Gospell of Mattew. It is also where he gave us his greatest commandment.

Mark's comments to Josiah were nothing Christ would have done, that was wrong on Mark's part, but Mark knows that.

As for DL, he is a man whose actions are not to spread a message of Christ, he belittles others, calls them names, and makes personal attacks. All actions of a man who is scared and lacks the courage to walk in love.

I mostly feel sorry for him.

Mark said...

Joe says

Thank you DL, Your remarks only stregthen my feelings about fundemenalist Christians being more about saying the words than living the words.

Actually Joe, the only one strenthing your opinions, is your pride. Pride fueled by the very forces that keep people from actually coming to Christ!

you also say

Mark's comments to Josiah were nothing Christ would have done, that was wrong on Mark's part, but Mark knows that

How would have Christ addressed a young man who thinks his prostate gland was put in his ass by God for sexual pleasure, with 'good reason' none the less!?

I can't wait to hear your answer.

jas said...

mark, dont feel once ounce of despair, or even anything about josiah leaving your blog.

its your blog, and you dont pay for people to read it, or even ask people to comment on it. so what if he left.

as far as the comment about his ass, well, i see two things: its his ass, and he can do with it while he pleases (but i dont know why he would want to include you in the knowledge of what he does with it), and b.) its your blog, so you can say what you want to about his ass. you owe no one else an explanation for the words on your blog, especially to someone who told you that they didnt respect you.

as far as your article, i think many-a-people have died over differing interpretations of small things in the Bible (like the eucharist...because this blood represents my body is very different than this blood is my body, and that one difference caused a split in protestantism).

i think you are right that the message is fairly the same, but without the little stuff, we wouldnt have blogs like this to argue over the small stuff.

Cleanie said...

I always like the tactic of discrediting christiand by saying " The dont exemplify the love of Jesus, therefore your lack of Jesus in you validates my homosexuality.
This is a faulty premise.

Josiah said...

I didn't say what I did or what I was going to do with my ass (other than the fact that I'm waiting, I really am not planning for anything). I just made a comment after Cleanie made a statement about gay people that was ignorant, tied it to anal sex, and called it a day. I just decided to bring some reason into the issue. And about the "good reason" thing, I'm not saying asses were originally meant for that, as most people never experience that, but I just think God puts every part of your bdy in a specific place for a good reason, including the prostate (hey, im sure it's worked great for some people. whether it would work out for me, I really don't know and don't care about at the moment)

Jas, he can insult me all he wants but if he insults people wrecklessly, he shouldn't be surprised when people leave or if there is a large backlash.

You know, Jas, Mark, I'd be able to leave this blog alot sooner if people didn't keep talking about me like this. The way Mark describes it, you'd think I was planning to have anal sex next week. >.>

Cleanie said...

Joshia,
Please remember that anal sex is a rectum wrecker.

Mark said...

Chase aka josiah,
I have never insulted you. I corrected your false assumptions. Now, I think we all have had enough ass talk, lets move on.

highboy said...

Joe Brummer: Nice job side-stepping the fact that Jesus called people many names, and called it like He saw it. Also, you have yet to acknowledge and own up to your past DELIBERATE misrepresentation of Mark (yeah, I haven't forgot) which makes your credibility to speak honorably about anything ethical absolute zero. Thanks for coming out.

Joe Brummer said...

Joe wrote: Thank you DL, Your remarks only stregthen my feelings about fundemenalist Christians being more about saying the words than living the words.

Mark replied:
Actually Joe, the only one strenthing your opinions, is your pride. Pride fueled by the very forces that keep people from actually coming to Christ!

Joe replies:
Pride, no Mark. Try empathy, compassion, curiousity. What really keeps people from Christ is when Christians are good at talking the talk, but not walking the walk. Not pride, but action. Do your actions and your words match how Christ asked us to treat each other?

Joe orginally wrote:
Mark's comments to Josiah were nothing Christ would have done, that was wrong on Mark's part, but Mark knows that

Mak replied:
How would have Christ addressed a young man who thinks his prostate gland was put in his ass by God for sexual pleasure, with 'good reason' none the less!?

I can't wait to hear your answer.

Joe replies:
How would Christ have addressed this? Without insults or vulgar words and without a sword of tougue.

Remember what Jesus said when Peter cut off the ear of the soldier...."Put down the sword"

He was pretty clear throughout his words to his followers that we have an obligation to approach others in a certain way. That way is nonviolence.

Mark said...

What really keeps people from Christ is when Christians are good at talking the talk, but not walking the walk.

There you go again Joe! We are all imperfect, and that's your excuse?

I'll ask again,
How would have Christ addressed a young man who thinks his prostate gland was put in his ass by God for sexual pleasure, with 'good reason' none the less!?

Don't tell me what Christ would NOT say, but what WOULD He say?


and while we are on the topic, you say
Jesus told us specifically how to treat those who oppose us. It is very clear in the Gospell of Mattew. It is also where he gave us his greatest commandment.

Joe, What is God's greatest commandement???

You will not answer that very direct question becuase it is indeed your pride that keeps you from Christ! but give it a go, eh?

Joe Brummer said...

I answered your question in my email. You can continue to ask the question over and over till your are deaf, but I will not play games of arrogance with you.

If you would like a meaningful conversation on the gospel of Matthew, I am happy to do that, but it you think you could play pride games with me, you are incorrect.

Mark said...

Joe,
You are a disingenuous coward. You have literally refused to write out the answer to my question in both email and here! I will answer & write it out for you.

"Joe, What is God's greatest commandement???"

36"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?"

37And He said to him, " 'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'

38"This is the great and foremost commandment.


Only a Man filled with such vile pride would refuse to even type out that answer and yet have the absolute wretched gaul to use it to make a point! Shame on you!

What were you afraid of Joe? Your little fingers would catch fire on the keyboard? or was it something else?....

Joe Brummer said...

It is not pride Mark, it is noncopperation with arrogance. I just refuse to play your game.

Like I said, if you are looking for meaningful converstion about that verse, I would be happy to do that, if you are looking to play some game of arrogance. I believe it is childish and refuse to cooperate with such games.

A coward Mark, come on, you can do better than that.

Mark said...

Joe,
You brought up the greatest commandment, I asked you what it is? Simple as that. The only arrogance being displayed is by you.

A coward Mark, come on, you can do better than that.

I know, but I thought coward worked for this incident.

Joe Brummer said...

You asked me what it was and I sent you the verse and chapter numbers. It was you Mark, who started demanding that I write it out. I thought that was rather weird and a bit uncool. Based on my past experiences with you, I made up my mind this was another game and I was not playing.

You asked for the answer, I gave it, rather than having a discussion on that verse, you demanded I "spell it out for you" saying and your words were " know my Bible Joe." Those words told me you knew the verse. From that point on there was either a discussion on the verse or a game.

I don't play games, they serve no point but to insult and demean. I won't cooperate with such things.

Joe Brummer said...

I am still here, even after you games, insults, name calling, the disrespectful things said to me by you and DL and Highboy.

A coward walks away, a courageous person stands up for himself. Which is it that I have done??

Mark said...

we both know why you did not write it out. I will once again pray for you and leave it at that.

Joe Brummer said...

I think your pride has gotten in the way of your apology!

Mark said...

Joe,
I will not say I am sorry for asking you to write out the Biblical verse you used to make a point. You should apologize, not to me however.

This may be a good lesson for you, stop quoting scripture you would no less write out much less speak and live by.

Joe Brummer said...

Ahhh! That is just it Mark.

I do live by it, the question is do you!

That was my whole point, one you have ignored.

You can talk the talk, but can you walk the walk?

Why did you want me to write it our Mark?
You asked me for the greatest commandment and I gave it to you. You wanted more. Why? What was your reasons? Why point were you trying to make. If the answer to those questions warrant an apology, I have never been one not to make public apologies when I thought they were due.

But first...answer the questions, explain your actions.

cleanie said...

this whole conversation is making my butt itch

Mark said...

Joe makes a great point..
Jesus told us specifically how to treat those who oppose us. It is very clear in the Gospell of Mattew. It is also where he gave us his greatest commandment.

Mark ask Joe "Joe, What is God's greatest commandement???"

Joe refused to answer that question, other than refering to the obvious scripture verse.


Joe ask me Why did you want me to write it our Mark? But first...answer the questions, explain your actions.

No problem. It gave you an opportunity. Joe, do you just throw out scripture verse when it suits YOUR objective and not God's real message of a changed heart.

If you are unwilling to write outn the very verses you use to make your point, what does that tell your readers about you?

It tells me, you replace truth with lies and deception. It tells me, you will use Christ's words and Biblical verse only when it suits your selfish pride. It tells me, Joe is afraid to be considered "uncool".

Now again, what is God's greatest commandment?

You can answer that question, even if you or I fall short of obeying it. See? that where Christ takes over, but inorder for Christ to take over, you gotta let go of the wheel, joy stick, or whatever else is driving your life.

Mark said...

cleanie,
Might I suggest a hypoallergenic soap? :)

Joe Brummer said...

That us all very interesting Mark. You have made an entire story about me and my life. Shame little of it is true, but if it helps you in some way to sleep great. It does nothing to find the truth about me or you.


Sleep Well! I will not be bullied, chalk that up to pride.

Mark said...

Joe,
We'll talk again. I will sleep, whether or not I sleep well or not, is up to God. That's why I pray. I'll talk to Him about you and I tonight.

Cleanie said...

Mark, thanks for the tip, hehe

jas said...

josiah said Jas, he can insult me all he wants but if he insults people wrecklessly, he shouldn't be surprised when people leave or if there is a large backlash.

yes, he can insult you all he wants. its his blog. feel free to insult whoever you want on your blog.

no, he shouldnt be surprised about backlash. should he care? no. its his blog, and he doesnt owe anyone anything.

Cleanie said...

Dog Blog it, this is just tooo much. Gays have it made in this country. They can, and do, get very good jobs. They can have all the sex they want in their own bedrooms, about the only thing they cant do is marry.
This is because marriage is very well defined man and woman unite as one, multiply, and live happily ever after if the wife cooks.

Josiah said...

You know, Cleanie, about....oh....40 years ago, you could say the same thing about an interracial couple.

As for gays "having it made" in this country, other than the facts that many gay people have gotten enough of an education to get good jobs. Also, since many can't have kids, or decide not to, they just generally have more money. (it's probably not helping that I'm moving into a house thats over half a million dollars around the end of the month or a little later, but that's my mother's money, not mine) I don't see what the fact that many gay people are studying and working hard enough to get a higher paycheck has to do with anything.

"marriage is defined as man and a woman"
things change cleanie. they have always changed. people learn from each other and tackle issues better than earlier. Gay marriage is being treated much more openly and intelligently in other countries, hopefully, soon, it will be treated in the same way here too. I doubt it will happen in anything under, say 15 years though, though I could be wrong. Americans are a very agressive, argumentative bunch. If it's one thing the Europeans have that we could learn from, it's that the majority realize that most people don't care about what their opinion is, (realise I said majority, I had to take france out of the equation) and know that just because they have more money than a certian number of other countries doesn't mean they're always right.

Oh, and here's a little quote from one of our founding fathers:

"Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law."

-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Thomas Cooper, February 10, 1814

highboy said...

"It is not pride Mark, it is noncopperation with arrogance. I just refuse to play your game."

So that is why you continuously dodge my repeated attempts to get you to either back up or retract your ridiculous speculations regarding Mark from the past. What does Jesus say about lying?

"Dog Blog it, this is just tooo much. Gays have it made in this country. They can, and do, get very good jobs."

Heh. A good joke sir.

"You know, Cleanie, about....oh....40 years ago, you could say the same thing about an interracial couple."

Big difference between marriages of people of different skin shades and marriages of people who believe an asshole is naturally suppose to have a dick in it. Ridiculous and you know it. Homosexuality is not natural. Don't try the "its been observed in 450 different animal species" crap either. Females eating their children is also observed in the animal kingdom, and its still illegal for a human to do so.

"things change cleanie."

Explain how changing the definition of marriage so that it includes gays benefits anybody, anybody at all, besides queers?

"Gay marriage is being treated much more openly and intelligently in other countries, hopefully, soon, it will be treated in the same way here too."

Those countries all do a lot of things differently, not just marriage. Who is the wealthiest, most powerful of them all though I wonder?

By the way, you don't want to get into a quoting match in regards to our founding fathers. You quoted a president that refused to let Christianity rule and ALSO kept homosexuality, not just the marriage, but the practice itself, ILLEGAL dumbass. Not to mention its the same guy who kept black slaves as property all his life and cheated on his wife. But hey, you model him.

Mark said...

Chase aka josiah also quoted a President (Jefferson) who made it very clear Biblical instruction in our schools was key to making this nation's citizens prosper. Wise advice for a new republic in my opinion.

Chase, learn your history boy.

Josiah said...

Highboy, explain how hate crime laws protecting black people helps anyone BUT black people? Does something have to benefit you?

In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own.- also Thomas Jefferson. I wonder who the "priest" would be considered now?

Mark, please provide the quote that shows Jefferson wanted Christianity taught in schools.

Highboy, you accuse people of intolerance, but who used the word "dumbass" first? And for your information, George Washington had slaves too. You have to take everyhting into historical context. Are you going to blame a southerner in the early 1800's, for example, for being rascist? No. They were taught that way. Those days, there really was no other opinion that you would hear. You assumed everybody was rascist, and kept your mouth shut. As for the idea of him being against gay marriage, I really doubt anyone ever did an interview that asked about his opinion on gay marriage. Hell, like not a single gay person was even open about their sexuality back in those days. Most people just didn't consider it an issue because they only saw it once or twice every 10 years if they were lucky.

Highboy, whenever you hear of gay people is all you can think about sex? Sometimes I feel like conservatives are actually less motivated by their religion and more by the fact that they think gay sex is icky.

And again, Highboy, you could still use the same routine for interracial couples. "a black man's penis was not meant to be in a white woman's vagina. it's not natural, and you know it." see, it just doesn't hold up.

So because America has more money it's current social policies are more valid than other countries, Highboy? Strange, China is hot on America's tail power-rise, and yet I doubt many of the other countries, or even America, respect it's policies. Oh, and because of the euro, most of eastern europe could be considered more of one economic country with several states. And, currency-wise, it's kicking America's ass. So, if you think that wealth really shoul influence social policies, sure, but that means western european thinking is going to gain in power, and it's quite liberal.

Mark said...

Mark, please provide the quote that shows Jefferson wanted Christianity taught in schools.


“I have always said and always will say that the studious perusal of the Sacred Volume will make better citizens, better fathers, better husbands... the Bible makes the best people in the world." President Thomas Jefferson


The reason that Christianity is the best friend of Government is because Christianity is the only religion that changes the heart." President Thomas Jefferson

"Of all systems of morality, ancient of modern, which have come under my observation, none appear to be so pure as that of Jesus." Thomas Jefferson To William Canby, 1813

"My views- - - are the result of a lifetime of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished anyone to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference of all others—" Thomas Jefferson to Dr. Benjamin Rush On April 21, 1803

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a cisciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our Creator." Thomas Jefferson wrote on the front of his Bible.

Josiah said...

Thomas Jefferson, just so you know Mark, WAS a Christian, but he was also a deist. He believed that God made the earth, but generally afterwords left humans alone. This was a man, who, for example, when presented with the idea of evolution not contradicting the bible, would reply "well, let's look into it then." Thomas Jefferson, religiously, was considered very radical, because he thought science should always be considered before "Christian mysticism". He even made an edited version of the bible, eliminating many of the supernatural miracles while keeping the teachings of Jesus. This is NOT the sort of man that would agree with you Mark Hell, some of his ideas on religion, particularly the blatant removal of verses in the Bible, is a bit too liberal even for me.

Oh, and Mark, nowhere did it say that he approved all children being made to learn the bible. he just said people who study the bible wil most likely become better citizens.

Mark said...

he just said people who study the bible wil most likely become better citizens.

my point has been made. TJ said a lot of things. Concerning our Republic, and on this point he was correct.

Josiah said...

Yes, but he didn't apprve of kids being made to study it. He just said people who would would become excellent citizens. I think reading the bible is a good thing to, and would agree with his statement, but that doesn't mean I, or he, believed children should be forced to read it. Also, Mark, do you really trust his interpretation of the bible?

Mark said...

No Chase, I do not. I also never said forced. That is why I do not use him to make a Biblical point, you did.

Josiah said...

But you agree with it being taught in public schools, don't you? In that sense, wouldn't it just be easier for the students to devote themselves to bible study on their own time?

Biblical point? No, never did that. Political point? Yeah, sure. I mean, he was one of the about 5 people who single handedly formed our government (with roman influences, of course)

highboy said...

"Highboy, explain how hate crime laws protecting black people helps anyone BUT black people? Does something have to benefit you?"

Comparing hate crime law to marriage rights is ridiculous, and not even in the same ball park. Nice attempt at a valid illustration however.

"Highboy, you accuse people of intolerance, but who used the word "dumbass" first?"

I've repeatedly said that I was NOT tolerant. Who did I accuse of intolerance by the way? Quote the statement please, or count yourself as less than credible.

"And again, Highboy, you could still use the same routine for interracial couples. "a black man's penis was not meant to be in a white woman's vagina. it's not natural, and you know it." see, it just doesn't hold up."

*buzzer* Wrong. A dick and an ass are not biologically made to couple together. Comparing that to skin color is again, ridiculous.

"This is NOT the sort of man that would agree with you Mark"

Nice speculation. But Jefferson's voting record and known statements are against you.

Josiah said...

Highboy, on the first part, I was replying to you saying "Explain how changing the definition of marriage so that it includes gays benefits anybody, anybody at all, besides queers?" Does it HAVE to benefit everybody? Again, egregation really didn't help anyone other then black people. Sure, people became more tolerant and understanding, but then again, the same might happen if gay marriage happened. There will always be fringe groups, but I beieve the majority will see gay people for what they really are, which is much more positive than some people think.

Well, then, Highboy, if you defend your right to have that degree of intolerance that I pointed out, don't expect gay people to put up with your crap without fighting back.

Explain how the interracial/gay thing doesn't hold up? Quit saying statements without bringing anything to hold it up!

Jefferson's voting record? Jefferson freakin' took verses out of the bible that he considered not believable! And how do you explain his comment that Christianity has no place in the common law? Start bringing up some evidence Highboy! Geez!

highboy said...

"There will always be fringe groups, but I beieve the majority will see gay people for what they really are, which is much more positive than some people think."

I always thought they were gay human beings. That's pretty negative to God.

"Well, then, Highboy, if you defend your right to have that degree of intolerance that I pointed out, don't expect gay people to put up with your crap without fighting back."

Fight back all you want. I don't tolerate homosexuality because GOD doesn't tolerate homosexuality. If it makes you feel better, pre-marital sex, divorce, and the like all get me fired up. All sin does. My own sin does. I'm just as hard on myself as I am you. But you won't catch me trying in vain to justify it.

Josiah said...

Highboy, if your going to say things, back them up! Seriously, your no better than the average forum troll! Do you see me throwing insults without actually adding anything meaningful to the conversation? No! Do some actual research and start to make a contribution!