Tuesday, November 27, 2007

Archbishop Tutu's biblically unfaithful apostasy

Tutu hits out at Church on attitude to gays

"If God, as they say, is homophobic, I wouldn't worship that God."

100% of the verses addressing homosexual behavior denounce it as sin in the strongest possible terms.

100% of the verses referencing God’s ideal for marriage involve one man and one woman.

100% of the verses referencing parenting involve moms and dads with unique roles (or at least a set of male and female parents guiding the children).

0% of 31,173 Bible verses refer to homosexual behavior in a positive or even benign way or even hint at the acceptability of homosexual unions.

Indeed, Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu does not worship God, he worships an idol. I dare say Jesus Christ may not know him at all.

"Our world is facing problems - poverty, HIV and Aids - a devastating pandemic, and conflict,"

Our world will continue to face problems until Christ returns. Poverty is quite relative, nor is it a sin. If Tutu is truly interested in peace, he'll become a slave first. That will require living for a different purpose.

"In the face of all of that, our Church, especially the Anglican Church, at this time is almost obsessed with questions of human sexuality."

Actually, the church will and should be obsessed with the God's word, His authority, and His truth. The church should be a holy place where sin is despised. When did one's sexual desires become Lord? Like I said, he worships an idol, not God.

12 comments:

Jonathan said...

Mark:

You indicate that there are 41,173 verses in the Bible that refer to homosexual behavior. You mentioned this once before (although I think you indicated 31K) and I questioned you about it but never received an answer. I grew up in church, have studied the scriptures my entire 38 years and am hard-pressed to figure out how you have come to the conclusion you did regarding the number of verses in the scriptures referring to homosexuality (or behavior).

j.

Mark said...

correction 31,173 verses. That jonthan would be the complete Bible.


0% of the Bible refers to homosexual behavior in a positive or even benign way or even hints at the acceptability of homosexual unions.

Neil said...

Thanks for the clarification! I've always said 41,173 based on a Podcast sermon I heard. Either the preacher misspoke or I misunderstood. You are right about it being 31,173. Gotta go update a few old posts now!

More importantly, good points on Tutu. When people say things like, "My god would never ______," I always think, "Yes, you are right, your god would never do that. Because he is a god of your creation, not the real God."

Neil said...

And of course God isn't homophobic. God doesn't fear anything, and He certainly doesn't have an irrational fear of homosexuals.

The real homophobes are the liberals who are so afraid of the gay lobby that they pervert what is taught in public schools, support same-sex unions, etc.

Justin said...

Mark there are as you say 31,173 verses that condemn Adultery, Lieing,Murder,Slander, Divorce,and on and on. Am I right here.

Now Mark, I challenge you to go into your Church and start accusing the pastor and the congregation with the same zealotry you seem to have regarding homosexuality and Churches who preach a loving God, a merciful God.

No, Im serious I challenge you to go in and demand your Church break with these sinners. Do you think they will listen to you? Probably not because you would never do it.
Why, because you like most fundementalist see and rail against the one and only sin that you see. You over look all the other sin and tolerate it in your own congregation.

Tell your friends who are Divorced and remarried they are doomed to hell because 0% of 31,173 Bible verses refer to divorce in a positive or even a benign way or even hint at the acceptability of divorce since it causes adultery.

0% of the 31,173 verses hint at the acceptablity of children born out of wedlock. To use your analogy these children are doomed to hell because the Bible says they are.

Mark Sin is Sin pure and simple and there are no differing degrees to it. Adultery, Slander, Thieves etc. all rank right up there with homosexuality yet you will accept them in your congregation.

Are you willing to stand up against all of the churches who have turned a blind eye to these sins?

I love ya Mark I really do :)

Neil said...

Justin, of course people with out-of-wedlock kids, divorces, etc. are doomed for Hell along with those who commit homosexual acts. That is, unless they have trusted in Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Any decent church should teach that everyone is a sinner in need of a Savior.

Should churches give more balance to heterosexual sins? Sure. Couples living together, easy divorce, etc. should be preached against. So churches who grandstand on the sin of homosexuality are imbalanced.

But whether adultery, homosexual behavior, etc. are preached against or not, they are still sins.

Mark said...

@ Neil, thanks brother! ;)

@justin,
Straw man, straw man, and straw man. I have challenged not only my bishop, but those under her including my Pastor who may not enjoy my style, but most assuredly agrees with biblical authority.

When those sins you list, become celebrated, and preached in the name of Christ as holy, you will hear me. You say "overlooked", I say BS in a loving way.

To use your analogy these children are doomed to hell because the Bible says they are.

Please do not confuse one''s salvation with "snatching" folks out of the fire. Proclaimimg the truth and authority of God's word, the need for repentence, and the command to reject and disassociate with false teachers IN the church is our duty.

Mark Sin is Sin pure and simple and there are no differing degrees to it.

Taking that in different contexts and perhaps different presuppositions on degrees etc.. I would both a agree and disagree.

I love ya Mark I really do :)

How could you not? Only if my mother felt the same way, eh? :)

Justin said...

"Mark Sin is Sin pure and simple and there are no differing degrees to it."

"Taking that in different contexts and perhaps different presuppositions on degrees etc.. I would both a agree and disagree."

How confused you must be :). And as to how could I not love you even if your mother doesnt feel the same way :) well I always did have a afinity to snarling dogs :)

You said:
"When those sins you list, become celebrated, and preached in the name of Christ as holy, you will hear me."

Strawman, Strawman, Strawman:)
Well Mark, I think it is worse to have it sit silently around you and be accepted it doesnt have to be celebrated you have already accepted it in you midst.

If your church accepts its presence and does not preach against it are they not already celebrating it silently tho be it.
Have you and your ministers not already become false teachers because you ignore the sin rather than confront it? :)

Now tell me Mark just who is the true church?

Pats your snarly lil head down boy down :)

Justin said...

Neil,

A wonderful name that is my second middle name :)

You are right unless they have accepted Jesus as their Savior they are doomed. That goes for everyone. And I do not think that there is any one here who has the insight to determine ones salvation.

"But whether adultery, homosexual behavior, etc. are preached against or not, they are still sins."

My point exactly so why single out just one?

Neil said...

"A wonderful name that is my second middle name :)"

Cool! And I'm inferring that you spell it the right way as well. (though I'm pretty thick skinned about it after seeing it misspelled so many times over the years . . . as long as they don't spell it with a "k" I'm happy).

"My point exactly so why single out just one?"

Good question . . . let's ask Mr. Tutu was he is singling out this sin and saying it isn't a sin. :-)

If he said adultery wasn't a sin I'd ask the same question.

At my church the pastors rarely speak about specific sins like that, and when they do things are balanced. My issue is with the groups trying to call evil good and good evil.

Mark said...

Tell your friends who are Divorced and remarried they are doomed to hell because 0% of 31,173Bible verses refer to divorce in a positive or even a benign way or even hint at the acceptability of divorce since it causes adultery.

Why would I do that Justin?

I know you don't like to be corrected, you being educated in the finest Seminaries and me just a student in a fundi seminary, but didn't God actually command divorce in the Bible?

This time I promise I won't help you with the actual scripture. See I am learning..:)

Justin said...

No he did not, Moses gave the bill of divorcement for the hardening of the heart. I will let you find that one.

Now go read the sermon on the mount and see what Jesus had to say regarding divorce. The only reason was fornication something that is so seldom the case these days.

Now Mark, I have no problem being corrected if I am wrong but I will not let anyone by who misuses scripture to bolster a false premiss.:)