Monday, November 26, 2007

Rick Warren, AIDS, and a church

Source: Senator Hillary Clinton (D-New York) will join Rick Warren at his California church this month for an AIDS conference.

Warren says he has invited several other presidential candidates from both parties to attend his third annual Global Summit on AIDS, but Senator Clinton is the only one, so far, to confirm. According to a press release, others who have expressed interest and currently are dealing with scheduling issues include GOP presidential candidates Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee, and Rudy Giuliani, and Democrats John Edwards and Senator Barak Obama (D-Illinois).

According to Warren, "Inviting politicians from different perspectives to the Summit is not a political decision -- it is a humanitarian and Christian action."

"Christian action"? Who is he kidding?

Attention Rick Warren:
We already know lots of people know who Jesus Christ is. The question you should be asking yourself and others; does Jesus Christ know you?

Rick Warren does not have the intestinal fortitude to break fellowship with those who corrupt, distort, and deny the authority of scripture. In fact, giving them a global platform under the flag of 'Christianity' is nothing short of a bold act of defiance towards God and his word.


Related topics:
Dr. Bobby Jones Gospel hour

Why Obama should be kicked out of any pulpit.

8 comments:

Justin said...

Now just what group are you talking about? Are you talking about the poloticians? Are you talking about the people who have aids? Are you talking about people who dont believe just as you do?

Perhaps you have forgotten the words of this man you are saying these people dont know.

"If you have done this to the least of my brethern you have done so unto me."

Mark said...

Justin,
I can't seem to find my reference in this post to any particular 'group'.

I did however refer to those that corrupt, distort, and deny the authority of scripture.

Are you talking about people who dont believe just as you do?

I am not concerned with what folks believe as much as I am with what they know. Knowledge and beliefs are not equal my friend.

Your implication that I do not 'care' about the "least of these" is a straw man.

"If you have done this to the least of my brethern you have done so unto me."

That verse in context is clearly speaking of Christ's disciples(ie us) not the poor or earthly needy in general. Please look at verse 34 and notice the words 'those on his right' to help keep your thoughts in context to verse 40 which you use. (Matthew 25)

btw, I enjoy you comments, thanks. Hope you had a nice thanksgiving. :)

Justin said...

Mark:
To begin with I was questioning just who Rick Warren does not have the intestinal fortitude to break with.

"Rick Warren does not have the intestinal fortitude to break fellowship with those who corrupt, distort, and deny the authority of scripture. In fact, giving them a global platform under the flag of 'Christianity' is nothing short of a bold act of defiance towards God and his word."

Is it the candidates, the aids forum, just whom are you speaking of that he is to cowardly to break from.

While I may disagree with many things about Rick Warren I would never be so presumptious as to ask him if "Jesus Knows Him". Let alone ask anyone else that question.


As to my scriptural quote being a strawman. I do correct you lovingly as a father would correct his son. :)

Verse 40 does in fact mean the poor and earthly needy in general . As He was in fact talking to his desciples privately and no one else. (see Matt: 24:3 below)

The whole context of the discourse started in Matthew 24.

Matthew 24
1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

This chapter continues to verse 51
with parables of the second coming and picks up again in Chapter 25.

Matthew 25
1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

This chapter concludes with verse 46. When you read chapter 26 you see this very clearly.

Matthew 26
1 And it came to pass, when Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said unto his disciples,

2 Ye know that after two days is the feast of the passover, and the Son of man is betrayed to be crucified.

Now we all know Jesus alluded to the phrophets many times and Matt. 25 verse 32-33 is a direct referal to the Prophet Ezekiel.

Ezekiel 34:17
17 And as for you, O My flock, thus says the Lord God: Behold, I judge between sheep and sheep, between the rams and the great he-goats [the malicious and the tyrants of the pasture].

versus 35-36 are direct referals to the Prophet Isaiah.

Isaiah 58:7
7 Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house--when you see the naked, that you cover him, and that you hide not yourself from [the needs of] your own flesh and blood?

His desciples would have clearly understood the parables he told as pointing back to the words of the prophets. He was not addressing a multitude and telling them how to treat the desciples.

He was clearly teaching his desciples that all men would be judged as to their actions toward the Poor, the Hungry, the naked, the Sick, the Prisoner.

Mark I love your zeal for the word even tho we at times disagree on the meaning of the word.

I did have a good Thanksgiving and I hope you and yours did the same.

Mark said...

To begin with I was questioning just who Rick Warren does not have the intestinal fortitude to break with.

Those that deny the authority and clarity of scripture (specically regarding sexual purity at such a forum as this). Those that support killing the unborn. Those wolves in sheep's clothing.

If these people, his church were really interested in stoping AIDS, they would begin with God's word. Sexual ugres are not uncontrollable and any sex outside of marriage is wrong and has consequences. I may at times cross the line here between politics and church, but Rick Warren is using his church and the banner of Christ to give a platform for those who clearly reject and celebrate that which is in oppostion to God and His word. It is wrong to use the church as a door matt for all ideas and opinions. Only one matters, and only one is true.

re v 40 I disagree. It is referring to God's children, those on his right as v 34 makes clear. Regardless, as long as you don't think helping the poor etc.. earns you anything, or replaces the need for the bread of life, I won't beat this one to death. If I remember correctly you do (act) with much love and compassion for others.

I beleive asking someone if Jesus knows them is very important Justin. Many will call on His name and Jesus will say I did not know you comes to mind, no? Crucial point IMHO.

As for aiding those who have earthly needs, I agree we are called to do such, how could we not? We are all made in the image of God and have value. However, my fear is this conference will not address any spritual needs, nor will it solve anything. In fact, it will be yet another global platform for a Christless mission and message. That my friend must be rebuked.

Lastly I would caution you not to confuse God's children from those who are not. The two OT verses you cite speak of Isreal, not the world in general. This is true without denying the moral impications of compassion on others. The book of Ruth comes to mind when a Mohabite, a great enemy of the Jews, was welcomed and ultimately in the blood line of Christ. God is always in control and we would do well to see as much in both eartly blessings and judgments.

The Merry Widow said...

Sadly, I do not believe rick warren know's Christ, he has written a book that mostly ignores HIM, and he not only associates with those who are false teachers(a church problem) but has applauded the inroads that false teachers have made into protestant denominations.
And by false teachers I include; emergent church leadership, robert schuller and has a liking for the limelight that is counter to Jesus example.
I have written on rick warren, I have read the purpose-driven life, it leans toward another gospel.
As for desmond tutu, he is a communist who has used the church as a platform for his version of liberation theology, which is basically, 'sanctified communism'! I know, I used to be episcopalian!

tmw

Justin said...

Yes,Mark many will call on his name and he will say I know you not.

And Mark I do think I would be careful when you caution me about confusing things.:)

I know full well who Gods children are and are not. We are all his children and he would not see any perish. I know who Ruth was and I also know that she was a descendant of Moab the son of the incestious union between Lot and his daughter and he was the father of the Mohabites.

Not every forum has to have a spritual foundation. Forums are to give people a voice who have no voice. You target these forums because there is a homosexual connection but you fail to see there is a far bigger connection and that is innocent women, men and children who have aids. And no Mark they did not all get it from sex.

No it should not be rebuked at least some one is reaching out, some one is trying to bring a voice into the public sector that is not being addressed.

Do I see you or your church reaching out setting up a forum bringing the government and private sector in and trying to help accomplish a thankless task.

No, I see you and many like you standing on the sidelines railing against those who would try to do something because you dont feel it is up to your standards. And I do say that lovingly :)

Do you subscribe to the theory that God cursed them with this disease because of their sin and or sins? Do you belive the sins of the father are to the 10th generation?

Mark said...

We are all his children and he would not see any perish.

Your god must be weak, many will go to hell and he will see it. :)

Forums are to give people a voice who have no voice.

Since when did the Obama, Hillary etc.. loose their voice?

You target these forums because there is a homosexual connection but you fail to see there is a far bigger connection and that is innocent women, men and children who have aids. And no Mark they did not all get it from sex.

News flash justin, there is not one that is innocent.

Do I see you or your church reaching out setting up a forum bringing the government and private sector in and trying to help accomplish a thankless task.

'thankless' ? $$$ Good lord! Last time the church and govt had an affair, the church was made the whore.

Lastly, God is in control, blessings and judgement. That's what I subscribe to and it's not a theory, it's history.

Mark said...

@tmw
As for desmond tutu, he is a communist who has used the church as a platform for his version of liberation theology, which is basically, 'sanctified communism'!

Brillant phrase sister! Sums it up quite well. Hope you don't mind if I re use it. :)