Friday, August 08, 2008

Transforming Christ into the likeness of the world

Would you go to a gay friend’s wedding and bring presents? Or would you snub the gay wedding?
Comment by Wayne Besen — August 6, 2008 @ 3:12 pm

I would go to a close friend’s gay wedding and yup, I’d bring a gift. I know that all of my close friends know what I believe about sexual ethics and would not assume my beliefs had changed but that my attendance was a sign of my love and friendship. I’m sure I would get some serious flack for this decision - but at the end of the day, I believe loving people is what God asks of me.
Comment by wendy — August 6, 2008 @ 8:39 pm

Ms. Wendy Gritter, M. Div. is the National Director of New Direction - Creating a safe place for same-gender-attracted people to journey towards wholeness in Christ.

It should be noted, New Direction's Mission, Vision, and Core Values Statement makes several references to what Jesus would want, several Truth claims, and yet ZERO scriptural references.

It is not my intention to be-little this group's desire to help folks, but it is my intention to place a sharper focus on a troubling trend that seems to permeate certain kinds of ministries - making Christ (God's word) more like a new and improved reflection of the world (culture). See 1 John 2:15 -17.

It should be no surprise to Ms. Gritter that the world is ruled by the prince of lies - Satan.

If the message proclaimed is tailored to meet the world's demands and definitions for justice, love, and reconciliation - it remains of the world. Dealing with sin does not require a speciality ministry, nor does it require a message that "seek[s] to promote the use of language that builds bridges rather than barriers and commit to rigorously reviewing our language usage on a regular basis." In essence that's double talk for - let the world (culture) define which words are appropriate and let us re-evaluate these words regularly - God's word is not necessary and could perhaps be offensive to some folks; after all, the language (words) like - abomination, sin, vomit, repentance, hell, fool, and death, certainly aren't "bridge builders" nor are they very "seeker" friendly by the world's standards. See Hebrews 12:6 and 1 John 2:15-17.

When one becomes more interested in using language to build bridges of false Truths to the world, a worldly bridge is all you have - that is to marry Christ to the world, it has nothing to do with God's eternal Truth. In essence it is making an idol - making Christ, the word of God - the Truth, dependent on a worldly wisdom or desire. Perhaps it was not an over sight that ZERO scriptural references were missing in this ministries' mission statement - and all the while making Truth claims about what Jesus would want. If healing and reconciliation is important, we may want to re-evaluate our motives when we seek the Truth - God's will.

My point - if we continue down the path that views the world (human sin and our fallen condition) from a purely natural (worldly) perspective, we make ourselves and our own perspectives the center. In essence we corrupt God's Truths and replace His wisdom for our own. We become very susceptible to the world and its subtle pull away from God's Truth. Indeed Wayne Besen's question was well worded - he confronted Ms. Gritter where he knew she would waiver - her feelings. Why? because he operates from a purely natural worldview and knows as well as any believer, that is where we battle - flesh vs. spirit; Truth vs. lie, God's Truths vs. man's wisdom.

Is it any wonder why we see so much Christan faith marketing? Are we not hitching our faith that has been delivered to us and sealed in the blood of Christ, on the culture (world) once again? I submit to you - what is at stake is nothing less than God's eternal Truths.

Answer is: No, Mr. Bensen - I will not attend a public event mocking Christ - I will stay at home and pray my friend stops living in rebellion to the Truth - my gift. A gift I give freely because Christ loved me before I loved Him - a gift I accepted. That's another Truth claim in case you missed it.



Roy said...

2 Corinthians:6:11
What does this mean?
For me it seems quite clear what it says.
Jesus didnt hang out with nonbelievers,in fact He got in their face and called them broods of vipers.He did mingle with sinners but not unbelievers.
We have instructions to seperate ourselves from nonbelievers because it can become a snare.
Be blessed;

Roy said...

Lets just say that if Jesus would have gone to a gay wedding,what would he have said to them?Im sure that most if not all would have been offended by what he would have said.I doubt that anyone would see or hear His words as an act of love.

Susan Smith said...

God’s love often seems severe to mankind. “Many are the afflictions of the righteous; but the Lord delivers him out of them all” (PSA 34:19).

Words are powerful, and the Word of God has no equal. God bless you this day Mark. (ss)

Carlotta said...

I'm with you Mark, there is no way in the world I could go to a gay wedding. What a mockery of God's wonderful design of marriage between a man and a woman!

Prayer would be in order and I would do as you would have done too - pray for that friend!

Roy said...

I paid a visit to this New Direction site and man did they attack me.I didnt say anything that I thought was offensive.That wasnt my intention at all.
I have a couple of questions for you.
1.Why does this sin have the loudest voice of all sin.It never shuts up.
2.How can we reach them when they get offended by words listed below.
2.right and wrong
6.The Bible
Just about everything offends them.
Does their way of thinking have anything to do with what Romans:1:18-32 says about giving them over to a debased mind?
You know my reasons for wanting to understand them.It is a battle for me.One part of me wants to love them but at the same time I detest this vulger sin.
I dont like this feeling I have from tring to know them.It stirs emotions that make me very uncomfortable.I cant give up though as much as I woukd like to, and as I said,"you know why".
I pray daily about this and God usually is clear with his answer but it seems that my heart is being tested.
I have never been so confused as I am now tring to understand this gay spitit.I have to overcome this.
Give me something to think on.
Your Christ

Roy said...

Also how can I have compassion for someone that mocks God and wants to destroy His word and wants parents to let their children be gay?.How can I love someone that hates Christians?
I know the Bible says to love your enemy but how do we do that?

Mark said...

Hi Roy,
First, we all fall short. If we look our lives, our sin, our unholiness and utter rebellion - we are better able to express the gift of grace and forgiveness to others. In other words - we are all the affection of God's eye, He doesn't desire any to perish and grieves our sin as we do here and now.

If one has not repented and sought forgiveness through the blood of Christ - indeed they are blind to God's word (Truths). The Gospel will offend them greatly - expect such hostility and keep persevering knowing God is in complete control. Note- they crucifed Jesus and He was sinnless, imagine what they will do to us who have sinned and fail often.

I would encourage you to continue to put your faith in God and His Sovereign will. Do not become discouraged nor hateful. Loving our enemies is as much a matter of one's heart as it is acts - 2 Corinthians 5:10-12. Sharing the Truth in the midst of hostility is an act of love - Paul is a prime example as is our Lord Jesus.

Jude 20 But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit,

21keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

22And have mercy on some, who are doubting;

23save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.

24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,

25to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

Don't let the spirit of the world roll off our lips, stay always in the spirit of Christ and boldy proclaim His death, burial and resurection. Remember we save no one, God's word (the Truth) does. It also convicts and has such is a double edged sword.

you and yours remain in our prayers brother.

Roy said...

Thank you Mark,Ill be keeping in touch.
Be blessed

Kevin said...

Hey Mark,
I hope this finds you well. It's o.k. not to go to a wedding if you don't agree with it. I've done it myself, when someone who has been married multiple times got married again.
I do have to say that my marriage had nothing to do with the church. The marriage was a civil ceremony, which all marriages are. The people getting married choose whether to have their ceremonies at a church or if they are not religious, to have a cerermony somewhere else (like a city hall). But you cannot be married in a church without the paperwork required by the government. That is what is important and that is what makes a marriage--not what happens in a church or anywhere else.

Mark said...


Gay Marriage is an oxymoron.
I agree with you, I think, in a sense - I'd also have no problem with the State getting out of the marriage business as well. However, unless you are deliberately discriminating against those who want to marry relatives, multiple wives etc...then you aren’t just changing the defintion of marriage to being between one man and one woman - you are in fact saying that it is NOT just between a man and a woman and that it is now whatever you want it to be.

You might want to ask yourself - why is the Govt/State in that business in the first place? Hint - by nature and design heterosexual couples produce the next generation of children, and ONLY heterosexual couples can provide a mother and a father to a child.

Do you have anything against polygamists? Wouldn’t your love/commitment foundation apply to them as well? And what about incestuous couples?

As a Professor in history - you know that some ancient cultures had a prevailing attitude that pederasty was OK, and I know you well enough to know that is not something you would support either, would you?

The fact remains Kevin - a gay couple can NEVER provide a mother and a father to a child and no "gay" person is denied equal rights under the law.

Kevin said...

Hey Mark,
Your belief that a marriage is the only way to create a child is a little off the mark. Many babies are made outside of marriage and that doesn't make them any less.

And I am assuming that you would like to create a law that would make sure that straight couples who can never procreate cannot get married? After all, an elderly couple getting married can NEVER have children. You might as well ban them first of all from marriage.

And I am assuming you would like to create a law that would outlaw any form of creating children that involved artificial insemination?

You state that a gay couple can never provide a mother and father. That is true. Neither Doug nor I can be a mother in the physical sense. But what does it mean to provide a mother and father to a child? What special things does a mother do that a man cannot do? What special things does a father do that a woman cannot do? Are we talking attitudes (girls play with dolls and boys play with trucks) or are we talking about role playing (girls in the kitchen and boys do the physical work)? What exactly do you provide your children that your wife cannot? And what does she provide that you cannot? I would like specifics here.

Here is an example I will never forget. I was standing on a street corner getting ready to cross the street and a man and a woman were standing there with two children. The man had the boy close, and the woman had the girl close. A firetruck drove by. The boy was very excited about it. But the little girl was terrified and turned away to her mother, who also turned away. This is clearly a learned behavior based on the behavior of the man and the woman. Is that what a woman provides--that a little girl shouldn't like trucks? Is that what a man provides--that a boy should love big red trucks? Of course, this is very simplified, but you have to wonder about what parents of any sort give to their children.

Children need to be loved and made to feel like they belong (and a host of other things). It doesn't matter whether their parents are male/female, male/male, female/female or just male or just female.

And you might believe gay marriage is an oxymoron, but in California and in Mass it is not. But you don't live in those states. I know you don't like that I am married just like you are married, but that is o.k. I won't try and take your right to be married away even though you might be too old to have children (and I have to say I have no clue whatsoever what your real age is). But I am sure I can't count on you to not take my right to marry away. That is really the difference between us.

Mark said...

Are you suggesting folks - the entire world for instance, change the defintion of Father and Mother? and or the reason why the State has deemed such a union their concern?

Can you tell me why folks should NOT descriminate against other folks who want to "marry" their brother or sister etc...?

Kevin said...

I asked you a question about what exactly a mother and a father (as a unit) give to a child. Is there something special a woman gives? That is all I asked. I said nothing about changing the definitions of the words mother and father.

And I am only concerned about gay marriage. All of your examples that you pull out of your imagination do not concern me.

Steve said...

I'm glad someone finally called Wendy on her actions/beliefs. She needs to realize her actions will ultimately end up hurting an individual -- not helping them.

I've been following this "New Directions" for a while now. Anytime anyone has ever tried to "build a bridge" using compromise as the bricks and mortar, you better believe those bridges burned pretty darn quick.

I once heard a very dear "old time" pastor preach and say, "If it's true -- then it isn't new! And if it's new -- then it isn't true!"

We don't need "new directions" -- the "old ones" still work just fine. It's a repentant heart, a humbled spirit, Jesus Christ and the cross of Calvary.

No, no Christian should ever go to any so-called "homosexual" wedding, let alone, bring a gift for the couple. Once the snowball of compromise begins to roll, you can never stop it.

Mark said...


Again I ask you - Can you tell me why folks should NOT descriminate against other folks who want to "marry" their brother or sister etc...?

The core difference between you and I is best explained this way -

Either God exist or He is the creation of man. Either God created all and cares about what we do; or He does not and all is random and purposeless. Either John 1: 1-5 is True or it is not.

Your "gay marriage" starts off with a foundation based on feelings, not knowledge. If in the begining all creation was by the word (devine wisdom - Truth - the root word for logic) and the Word became flesh - Jesus (See John 1:1-5) - than everything else must be compared to that, no? Your gay marriage is based solely on a relativistic tower of error (man's creation not Gods) and has no truth based in any revealed devine knowledge (The scriptures). It is man's invention - nothing more.

Thus in your "religion" Mother and Father or even their "special" roles are mere terms that are relative - not something that has at its very foundation a product of God, who does indeed care about what we do and how we do it; giving us a purpose and not some humanistic materialistic spin that only creates more delusion - "gay marriage". If you have any other source(s) for absloute truths, let me know.

Furthermore, while it is still leagl to say this - raising a child in a "gay" marriage is nothing short of child abuse to those of us who derive our truths from God's wisdom and not our own.

hey man - Welcome and thanks for your input! Indeed Satan is never satisfied with just one little compromise based usually on the idol of one's sincerity and not the Truth!

Kevin said...


So you still can't answer the question. Typical.

And I don't know why you said that to me (about child abuse). I suppose you feel that your world view trumps all others. Fine. You go ahead and believe that. And that is all it is--just a belief. We'll see where that gets you when you near the end of your life and you realize that what you believed was just that--a belief.
You accuse me and my friends of child abuse. You know, I could say something really nasty back to such a stupid and dangerous comment. But I won't. You can sit back on your throne and pretend to be better than everyone. That is realy what makes you feel better. I'm glad I could help you feel better. I hope it lasts for a good long time.

Have a great life Mark. You are going to need all the help you can get.

Mark said...

You go ahead and believe that. And that is all it is--just a belief.

Kevin, my "beliefs" are based on objective Truths, independent of human emotion and desires - thus making me the truly tolerant one - not you. It is your "beliefs" that are based on human emotion and desire. Your "beliefs" are without logic and reason - good luck with that and try not to get so angry when others point out your utter inconsistencies. In essence all you have is relative beliefs, and that my friend always leads to nihilism.